tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post9214431531340100153..comments2023-09-07T04:13:08.133-04:00Comments on johndegen.com: board sends tariff objectors back to copyright schoolUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-27722639141397816122011-03-19T13:15:35.562-04:002011-03-19T13:15:35.562-04:00I'll agree John that the motivation of the edu...I'll agree John that the motivation of the educational sector in this regard is sometimes questionable.Crockettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-51286602547499794832011-03-19T13:01:02.383-04:002011-03-19T13:01:02.383-04:00Well John, I do not discount that the business sid...Well John, I do not discount that the business side of running educational institutions would be interested in cutting their costs. If they wish to use open sources, pre-paid works or databases, or even pay writers directly that is their option. <br /><br />As far as doing this in a way that infringes on copyrights, I am obviously opposed, and litigation is a costly and inefficient use of everyones time. <br /><br />The efforts here instead should be a balance between enriching the students use of information in their studies and giving fair renumeration to the creators of such materials.Crockettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-21936689564947184812011-03-19T12:59:51.724-04:002011-03-19T12:59:51.724-04:00Sorry John, but the cost issue just doesn't se...Sorry John, but the cost issue just doesn't seem to go away. I still contend that the percentage argument is a red herring. First it was 1%, then .4% and now 'barely a few ten-thousandths', soon it will be barley measurable! If the costs were as infinitesimal as some claim then why would anyone bother to be concerned about it? I doubt, unless you contend that Geist really is the second coming, that he can influence administrators past reason.<br /><br />There must be some others factors at play here. You mention the poising of the good relationship between the education and creative sectors, but I really wonder if it all came from one camp? Greed and self interest is not self exclusive.Crockettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-73584522909725618512011-03-18T18:34:02.740-04:002011-03-18T18:34:02.740-04:00Didn't the Cup wind up in astern Europe...oops...Didn't the Cup wind up in astern Europe...oops, no that's (fine)fiction.Sandy Crawleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-56233844268269346962011-03-18T10:42:27.732-04:002011-03-18T10:42:27.732-04:00Crockett,
You will note I didn't disagree wit...Crockett,<br /><br />You will note I didn't disagree with you on which direction Stanley is heading.<br /><br />sighJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803855978550653817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-15234858858087157772011-03-18T10:39:19.704-04:002011-03-18T10:39:19.704-04:00Crockett,
I respectfully disagree on three points...Crockett,<br /><br />I respectfully disagree on three points:<br /><br />1. I believe AC's asking price is fair considering the increase in types of uses and the, let's say <i>reluctance</i>, of institutions to cooperate in the tracking.<br /><br />2. Whatever solutions institutions come up with to secure copyright-protected materials for their classes, I can't see any cost savings passed on to students. It's not in the model as far as I can tell.<br /><br />3. As to the superfluousness of the affordability issue, the Copyright Board disagrees with you -- "royalties for all Institutions represent<br />approximately $4 million, which is barely a few ten-thousandths of their operating expenditures.<br />Yet some Institutions appear overly preoccupied with their ability to cope with any rate increase. This leaves the impression that seeking payment<br />from them at a later date may involve significant concessions on the collection of catch-up payments, were a rate increase to be imposed. All of this would be to the detriment of Access." (page 11)<br /><br />Oh, and just quickly, once again on the "who pays for this, the student or the school?" point -- also from page 11:<br /><br />[34] "Some Objectors emphasized the difficulties associated with having to refund royalties to past<br />and present students were the final rates to be lower than the interim ones. None alluded to the<br />difficulties associated with the final tariff being higher. Yet it is necessarily easier for Institutions to refund money after the fact than to collect it after the fact. It is difficult to even see the relevance of this objection by reason that under<br />both the current arrangements and the proposed tariff the Institutions, not the students, pay the royalties."<br /><br /><br />Gruesome, "clarity" was the creator side's initial ask. Michael Geist wrote a blog posting questioning the need for that clarity. And so, here we are.<br /><br />Joe Clark, I claim poetic licenz.<br /><br />_Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803855978550653817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-71523523753566692102011-03-17T23:23:17.771-04:002011-03-17T23:23:17.771-04:00Thanks for the clarity, I think this sounds fair.
...Thanks for the clarity, I think this sounds fair.<br />I also think the education exception could use some clarity to everyones benefit.Gruesomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13993466573477002853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-38994340242006040002011-03-17T22:54:44.867-04:002011-03-17T22:54:44.867-04:00Again, John, lesson in Canadian English: licence i...Again, John, lesson in Canadian English: <i>licence</i> is a noun; <i>license</i> is a verb. Hence there is no word <i>licencing</i>.Joe Clarkhttp://joeclark.org/weblogs/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-77526294721843454482011-03-17T20:00:24.407-04:002011-03-17T20:00:24.407-04:00On a more serious note.
AC has made their bid on...On a more serious note. <br /><br />AC has made their bid on what to charge ... fine. Now it's time for institutions to do a cost analysis to see if either signing the contract or going independent is in their best interest (and presumably their students). <br /><br />If AC has overshot and put that price too high* then they will feel the pinch. If not .. well time will tell. I do think though that amount of increase and their tactics at the table was an unwise move on their part.<br /><br />I do hope though that through all this the actual writers will somehow come out ahead.<br /><br />* - as to the 'only a small percentage of their costs' argument, that is superfluousness. I could offer to make all the students fresh brain-boosting nut bars for just 1% of the total budget. I'm sure they wouldn't miss that small amount 0_oCrockettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-69688120540153440902011-03-17T19:08:41.431-04:002011-03-17T19:08:41.431-04:00@John "If only Canada had some sort of Resear...@John "If only Canada had some sort of Research Chair who could authoritatively explain all this stuff to the post-sec community ...<br /><br />Oh, but then why would we need you ;?<br /><br />P.S. The cup is coming home to Vancouver!Crockettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-36693849760166550122011-03-17T14:58:30.608-04:002011-03-17T14:58:30.608-04:00Jeff,
I think the ruling is pretty clear on that ...Jeff,<br /><br />I think the ruling is pretty clear on that point:<br /><br /><i>"An institution can avoid [the tariff] by purchasing the work, negotiating a licence to copy the work with Access or its affiliates, not use any work in the repertoire of Access or engaging only in conduct exempt from liability."</i><br /><br />In fact, this was one of the points the Board stressed was frequently misunderstood by the expert objectors.<br /><br />If only Canada had some sort of Research Chair who could authoritatively explain all this stuff to the post-sec community.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803855978550653817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38495605.post-35207041222836324582011-03-17T14:27:07.628-04:002011-03-17T14:27:07.628-04:00I'm confused, sorry I haven't yet had time...I'm confused, sorry I haven't yet had time to read the decision.<br />If a University wanted to walk away from Access Copyright and get their materials directly from Authors or other sources do they still have to pay the tariff?Gruesomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13993466573477002853noreply@blogger.com